RuneScape ( is a 3d Java D&D/Aventure type of game made by Jagex. In RuneScape users control an avatar in a 3d world. They can use the avator to perform all kinds of tasks and train in a large variety of skills.

The game is well supported in the internet community with Jagex recording over 1 million member subscriptions during 2007.

The bulk of the RuneScape community seems to be made up of teenages.

The Free to Play (F2P) verstion of the game does not allow users to train in all of the skills in the game. As a result users become members to train those missing skills.

The Free to play version offers Quests for the users to complete. But the Members version allows for many more Quests and rewards.

Membership allows access to a much larger playing area.

It costs $5 (USD) for monthly membership to RuneScape.

Jagex are making $60 Million (USD) a year from RuneScape.

Jagex Customer Support for RuneScape is almost non-existant. Jagex provide a contact point for Customer Service via their RuneScape website.

However automated responses that do not cover a users requirements is the normal level of Customer Service communications received.

Communications from the user to Customer Service is limited to 400 characters.

Jagex also provide a Forum to the RuneScape community. However you must be a paid subscriber to post a message.

Even as a paid subscriber you must not post any detriment threads about Jagex or your threads will be locked and any posts hidden.

If you question their Rule over discussion of Customer Service the Forum Moderators will lock the thread and hide your comments and possibly even ban you from the forums.

Jagex have made the Customer Service unaccessable and the subscribers are not allowed to question it.

Recently (Jan 2008) Changes were made to the game to disallow “unbalanced trades” and remove PK (Player Killing) from the “Wildy”. Also the ability to grab the remaining treasure from a fellow dead Runescaper has been removed.

These “measures” were taken by Jagex to thwart “Real World Trading” of RuneScape “GP”.

The “measures” would certainly have twarted many “Real World Trading” businesses but the “measures” have also resulted in taking away a lot of the games appeal.

This means it is no longer possible to give to receive gifts of high priced items. Or trade or swap items that are not the same value. Many users were unhappy with these decisions.

Jagex dont seem to care if they upset a few members here and there. They have over a million more users.

Many X players have accused RuneScape of being responsble for lower school grades, and a complete loss of their ‘life’ due to Addiction to the game.

See Also:

2010-01-10 RuneScape

Woodcutting Exp Comparison

I thought it would be a good time to Runescape it this weekend. Since I have membership currently.. So… I decided to do some comparisons with Woodcutting experience.

Artic Pine vs Ivy

Cutting Artic Pine

Up on the Island of Neitiznot across the first bridge, are some Artic Pine trees.

There is also a Woodcutting stump and a pile of logs.

Using my Sacred Clay Hatchet.. (Everyone is using sacred clay.. right?)

The idea is to:

  • Cut the Artic Pine trees
  • Use the logs on the Woodcutting stump
  • Dump full inventory on pile of logs
  • Repeat

I worked out with the stopwatch in my Nokia 6280:

  • Full load (28) of logs, from the trees, takes about 3 mins.
  • Splitting and dumping the logs takes about 1.5 mins.

So it takes about 4.5 mins to do a full run.

Experience Gained:

  • Woodcut 1 log = 281
  • Split 1 log = 42

Inventory (28) x Total Exp (281 + 42 = 323) = 9044

We are getting 9044 Woodcutting Exp for 4.5 mins work:

  • 4.5 mins = 270 seconds.
  • 9044 / 270 seconds = Average of 33.49 Exp per Second

Cutting Ivy

What about Ivy? (I hear you ask..) I went to some Ivy.

I started with a totally fresh peice of Sarced Clay. The axe lasted for only 13 mins. In the 13 mins of chopping the Ivy. I got 38340 Woodcutting Experience.

  • 13 mins = 780 seconds.
  • 38340 / 780 seconds = Average of 49.15 Exp per Second


Ivy is the clear winner with 15.66 more Woodcutting experience than Artic Pines.

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2009-08-11 RuneScape

Fixing the "Loan System"

The RuneScape loan system is very limited. Players must perform the “loan” in real time on the same world with the player they are loaning to. (Basically similar to the old fashioned trade system) The current system only allows for 1 item to be loaned.

What if you could loan/borrow up to 6 items? But, you had to go into a specific building to do this?

Read on for my thoughts on fixing the loan system.

West Bank Varrock - "Waste of Space?"

The West bank at Varrock is almost a waste of space, due to the Grand Exchanges close proximity. However, People do “Smith” from this bank and they would be unhappy if the bank was removed. So I think it should remain a banking outlet, but perhaps addon to the functions players are able to perform here. Expanded loaning with Pawnshop capabilities perhaps?

Loan Exchange - "LE"

We could call the upgraded building ‘The RuneScape LE’ - (Loan Exchange)


1) Basic Banking - (Lets not upset people smithing..)


2) Players are able to “raise gp” by “pawning” acceptable items. Normal pawnshop rules should apply.

Players should be able to:

  • Pawn “Acceptable” Items
  • Reclaim Pawned Items - Within (Monthly) Contract timeframe.
  • Pay (Monthly) Fees - Or loose item. Lost items go on GE after 7 days.
  • Extend Loan Periods - On Current (Monthly) Contracts Only
  • First Option to “Buy Back” lost item. - Within 7 days of loss.

Loan Exchange

3) Loan items across RuneScape. (Similar to GE)

Players that:

  • Want to loan an item are able to set the “price” (system supplied min/max) in gp that they want per hour.
  • Need an item can come into the LE (Loan Exchange) and see the “min”, “mid”, and “max” gp per hour they need to offer.
  • Pickup (Collect) Items

6 loan items for members, 2 for F2P (same rules as GE)

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2009-07-28 RuneScape

"New" versus "Improved"

Jagex think that they need to add new content on a monthly basis to maintain their customer base.

As a result the RuneScape game is rich in content. With literally hundreds of unique “areas” scattered around the game landscape.

Jagex don’t just “add” content. They continiously upgrade nearly all aspects of the game via feedback they receive on their Forums.

This works out to be a good deal for everyone. It keeps the game players happy. It keeps Jagex financially happy.

Polish needed

However, I think Jagex should spend some more development time ‘improving’ the hundreds of previously ‘rushed out’ pieces of content.

Jagex eventually rectify rushed ‘flawed’ game design. Depending on how many people ‘the bug’ impacts. (via forums) Determines the time frame for rectification.

But certain ‘aspects’ of the game have been ignored in Jagex’s rush to continiously create new content.

The Lighthouse Quest (Horror from the Deep)

In my opinion, “The Lighthouse Quest” (now known as “Horror from the Deep”) is one example of a quest in need of a slight overhaul.

Not so much as the quest itself. (Though I’m sure that many aspects could be improved on)

I think, the Damaged Book reward from this quest, could be enhanced in many ways, to add more fun to the game.

Quest Overview (Brief)

  • Speak to Larrissa south of the lighthouse.
  • Go south, jump across the basalt platforms and go to the Barbarian Outpost.
  • Talk to Gunnjorn and get the lighthouse key.
  • Go up to the first floor. Search the bookcase and take all the books available, flip through the lighthouse manual and the Ancient diary.
  • Go up one more level, use the following items on lighting mechanism in this order: swamp tar, tinderbox, molten glass. The lighthouse will now be fixed.
  • Go talk to Larrissa once more.
  • Go down the ladder to the bottom floor of the lighthouse then use all of your basic elemental runes on the door, (fire, water, earth, and air).
  • Go though the door and down the ladder.
  • Talk to Jossik, be prepared to fight two Dagannoths.
  • After you defeat the Dagannoth Mother, the quest is finished.
  • Talk to Jossik.
  • You can now choose one of the three damaged prayer book you want (Zamorak, Guthix, Saradomin).

Quest Rewards

  • 2 quest points
  • 4,662 Experience
  • 4,662 Experience
  • 4,662 Experience


  • A damaged prayer book of your choice: a damaged Holy book (Saradomin), a damaged Unholy book (Zamorak), or a damaged Book of Balance (Guthix).

God Books

A player first receives a Damaged book and needs to add 4 torn pages to make a complete God Book.

Torn pages can be aquired from the GE, other players, or Treasure trails.

Each God Book provides different attributes to the wearer. Depending on what book is being worn.

Holy Book

  • God: Saradomin
  • +8 to ALL defensive stats
  • +5 prayer
  • 4 prayers
  • Bless: Holy Symbols
  • Color of book: White

Unholy Book

  • God: Zamorak
  • +8 to ALL offensive stats
  • +5 prayer
  • 4 prayers
  • Bless: Unholy Symbols
  • Color of book: Red

Book of Balance

  • God: Guthix
  • +4 to ALL defensive/offensive stats
  • +5 prayer
  • 4 prayers
  • Bless: Both Holy and Unholy Symbols
  • Color of book: Green

Upgrade God Books

For the aspiring RuneScape Mage. God Books provide one of the best MAGIC/PRAYER stat boosters in the game. But people are not always training combat. Mostly they are doing other things in the game. Mostly wearing the best/rarest/most expensive items that they have obtained. God Books fall into this category for most players. As a result God Books are worn around a lot in the game.

“People stand around a lot in the game. Waiting for things to respawn. Some people do the ‘emotes’ they have collected in the game while waiting. Others activate their ‘God Book’ prayers.”

Perhaps Jagex could upgrade the ‘prayers’ that players can activate? Some fun could be obtained if the limit of 4 prayers was relaxed. Why not allow players to collect hundreds of different prayers?

(Yes Jagex will be busy making hundreds of new prayers.. Read on..)

The Future?

How about making the prayers ‘effect’ other players (and yourself) in the immediate area? (like Lunar magic does..) The ‘effect’ could wear off in time. Or it could last until next combat. Or it could even be ‘cumulative’, so that you could end up ‘training’ a prayer?

There could be prayers to help (Saradomin). There could be prayers to harm (Zamorak). There could be prayers to help this stat but harm that stat (Guthix). Prayers for fun. Prayers for whatever function really…

This would be an exciting aspect to ‘add’ to the game.

Note: Mage Books are superior in Mage boosting performance, but offer a much more expensive alternative to God Books.

Online Guides:

Horror from the Deep

Wikia Salmoneus Zybez Tip It

God Book

Wikia Salmoneus - Prayer Tip It - Prayer Guide

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2009-07-19 RuneScape

Dandwc88 Takes Lead

School holidays end here tomorrow. Sarah and Dan have clocked up the hours on RuneScape.

I rested the Lazerzap1 account

For the last month, while I rested the Lazerzap1 account, I trained the PK Extremo account. Daniel took this as an invitation to play “catch up” on my (lazerzap1) main.

Dan took the lead

So much so.. He *&*^ actually beat my total exp on Lazerzap1!!!

Image Caption: Daniel after informing me that he had beaten my total exp.

Dan is currently 83 slayer. So as a result he has been killing Spiritual Mages and getting LOTS of Dragon Boots. [1]

Note: 2 nights in a row he got over 12 pairs of boots. (The Noob! thats over 8 million gp)

Note to Self: I must find a plan to recapture my pride and lost exp


Pk Extremo Membership Expires

In other breaking news: (I always wanted to type that!)

The Pk Extremo members subscription experiment has now expired.

This is the state of the Pk Extremo account at the end of one months members subscription.

Note: Left Image: Image taken after 12 days membership, Right Image: Image taken at end of 1 months membership.

I mainly worked everything up with Sacred Clay.


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2009-07-14 RuneScape

Playing Stealing Creation in RuneScape and a player started swearing. He kept on swearing too. Over and over he kept it up.

Now, I know that many players would have hit the Report button.

Which leads me to the question as to why Jagex dont just simply invest some programming into a much simplified reporting system.

I can imagine a system (easy to create) that takes note of the fact that many people have reported this account for swearing.

  • Make sure that those doing the reporting. ARE NOT on each others contact list.
  • Make sure that those doing the reporting. ARE NOT related thru a clan chat. (Past/Present)
  • Instigate immediate 5 minute mute. Warn user that more severe penalties follow for continious abuse.

Mutes can be increased in timelimit. Eventually for repeat offenders Bans.

Jagex staff dont have to lift a finger or spend another penny on this part of the reporting system.

So why haven’t they done this? Isn’t it an almost painfully obvious solution?

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2009-07-11 RuneScape

RuneScape: “I Swatch I” says Jagex RID there game of RWT WHILST convincing their ignorant userbase that they were in “financial trouble” and they were “having lawsuit problems”.

Comment: I totally agree. Jagex didnt NEED to remove RWT. They CHOOSE to do it.

“I Swatch I” 10-Jul-2009 02:27:01 Last edited on 10-Jul-2009 06:06:40 by Mod Lorenzo

I swear to god, This has gone beyond sad. In my 6 years of playing, since testing the Beta version of RS2, Not only have i seen Jagex Advertise their “13+” game on a 7-12 year olds website, Remove the only non-repetitive and enjoyable aspects of the game, totally kill of any need to communicate with other human beings, But with the release of this absolutely PATHETIC new PvP system. I and many others are really p’d off.

For starters, the new system only rewards patience. Not skill, not what gear you’re risking or wearing, but PATIENCE. Yes, as if we don’t have to be patient enough in real life, we’re forced to spend our “playing” time dwindling away in a hotzone in order to get some half decent bloody loot to sustain ourselves so we can come back and PK again.

And another thing, here i am, a good Pker, and i’m on a 10 kill streak. Am i rewarded? NO, I’m punished because i have 0 ep and i’m killing people and getting absolutely SHOCKING LOOT, For any of you who have ventured beyond Runescape you would know stringing together consecutive kills is REWARDED, not PUNISHED.

And lastly, Jagex. Where to start. Not only do you update things that have ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the game. But you choose to update things that are IN PERFECT BLOODY WORKING ORDER. STOP updating things that DON’T NEED FIXING. The old interface was FINE, But once again Jagex come riding in on their high horse to fix it, oh wait, IT DOESN’T NEED FIXING. Seriously, You need to fire Ted from the office or who ever is coming up with these terrible idea’s because it’s a disgrace.

Also, and believe me no amount of typing skill and ability can express just how funny i find this, Jagex have managed to both RID there game of RWT WHILST convincing their ignorant userbase that they were in “financial trouble” and they were “having lawsuit problems”.

So tell me, how come you go ahead and sue Frugooscape, yet you take no action against Gold Farming sites? And guess what? Here’s the punchline. I go onto Jagex’ official website and i see they’re ACTIVELY ADVERTISING FOR A LAWYER.

Are you actually serious, I have enough experience to know that in your terms and conditions you CLEARLY state everything ingame belongs to Jagex Ltd, Which gives you the Legal right to SUE ANY COMPANY WHICH ADVERTISES YOUR GOODS Under Section 27 Article 14- Advertisement without Legal Ownership.

So, there are the problems.

The solutions are simple. Sue the websites, Limit each credit card to 3 accounts, and make us register our credit cards at a bank. Although i greatly dislike Jagex, they have done a good job getting their 12 year old userbase on their side, leaving a few of us who aren’t baffled and taken in by big fancy words and a golden background. We do our research, And we come to a logical conclusion. Jagex have been very successfully covering up what can only be simplified as their inability to tolerate RWT, and taking the easy way out in getting rid of it, By affecting the IN GAME CONTENT to deal with a LEGAL PROBLEM.

Comment: Oh Yess.. Finally.. Someone who isn’t blinded with the lotto draw carrot of almighty ‘player mod’ status.

Thankyou “I Swatch I” for standing up for the game and the players. I believe that the game administration sold their souls long ago to maximize profit.

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2009-07-10 RuneScape

Jagex will expand your RuneScape bank space. But only If you are prepared to pay for it. How transparently money hungry has this Company become?

The bulk of this months ‘upgrades’ have been to Jagex’s billing/credit system. Not much in the way of ‘game improvements’.

I did notice a few ‘coats of paint’ over some icons and things. But even though the new ‘coats of paint’ have improved the look. They do not take many many hours of programming and debugging to implement.

I think what the RuneScape players are really looking for is ‘Value for Money’. In my opinion not something they will find regularly at RuneScape.

Quote: “With the Jagex security key, we would be so confident that your account is secure that we could consider adding expanded bank space to those accounts that are protected by the Jagex security key.”

So.. It is a security issue that limits the amount of bank space RuneScape players may have. I see. So I would expect on a less secure gaming platform. There might be only 4 spaces available in the bank.

Thats so if someone breaks into Jagex’s standard security, (which aparently they now admit happens), the standard security is insufficient to handle more than 500 bank spaces.

I see. The problem is not with the Jagex programmers. It is actually a bank security issue.

Maybe Jagex should exploy security guards to accompany us everywhere we go. That way the system can never be compromised.

Wait. What is it I can hear you say? The new dongle is the security guard I have been dribbling about?

Well dang and tarnation Jagex. You guys are so ‘L’.

If all the RuneScape players PAY $1 each. Will Andrew Gower wear a ‘Red Dwarf’ holographic ‘L’ on his forehead? I have heard it will allow him to expand his BANK SPACE considerably.

What a bunch of noobs!

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2009-06-30 RuneScape

I met Iceyman12345 today. I was logged in under my Pk Extremo account. Holdengirl30 and I were fighting Level 53 Trolls near Yanille.

I was wearing my full sacred clay combat armour. Complete with clay sword.

Iceyman12345 was ranging the Trolls.

We had a short but nice conversation and I added him to my contact list.

Holdengirl30 and I spent some time there training.

Next thing Duster241 turned up dressed in Magic Gear.

Using an AIR spell. Duster241 blasted them for awhile. I just stood there trying to get a decent image.

I notice Duster241 had a clay mage hat to double the magic exp.

RuneScape is a nice diversion from the complexity of life.

A diversion that takes a considerable amount of time. (not to mention mouse clicks) to ‘Master’.

It takes so long to train a skill to Level 99. It shows a true determination of will to achieve any Level 99 skill.

I originally trained Pk Extremo as a Defence 1 ‘Pk’ (Player Killer) account. Currently Defence level is 51.

I only play the Pk Extremo account when I am bored with my main account. (Lazerzap1)

The Pk Extremo account was originally created sometime during 2007. Here is Pk Extremo’s ‘stats’ after only 12 days of Membership.

Something perhaps a person with less willpower and/or determination would certainly give up on quickly.

I guess the RuneScape Highscores are ‘littered’ with accounts that have ‘given up’ on RuneScape long ago.

Its also ‘littered’ with a lots of people with *‘way too much time on their hands’* able to achieve many Level 99 skills?

Checkout the top 21 current highest scorers.

And whatever happened to Zezima? (I hear some of you ask..) Well, Zezima currently sits at Position 263 on the Runescape highscores.

What happened to Zezima? (I guess he/she found somthing more interesting to do?) The only thing that currently lets down the Zezima account is the Summoning level. Once that is at 99 the account will be fully maxed out.

How many hours does it take to fully max out an account?

To each their own I guess. I know I have clocked up some time on RuneScape.

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2009-05-07 RuneScape

I cant get Runescape to load….

Lazerzap1 Edit 07-May-2009 17:50:53

This is my last hope.

Runescape wont load anymore.

On 3 different pc’s since last upgrade.

This will cost jagex 4 subscriptions.

Problem has been aparent for some time now. Difficulty loading game. Retrying over and over has allowed us to finally load the game.

Not this time…

Problem has been noticable only since HD was introduced.

Network topography has changed considerably over time. However same issue always exists.

About 3 months ago I setup a linux server to ‘connect’ our mini-network to the net. The linux server provides the internet to my 3 xp boxes.

Problem: Loader (initial game code) seems to have 3 attempts to get to 100%.. It say goes to 5% then laggs out… Then it gets to 20%.. laggs some more.. Then it goes to 30%.. lags again and thats the third try… So It starts again… Gets to 20% and then I get the page telling me to login with low density…

I aint using low density.. If I cant get HD (the whole family feels this way) then it aint worth playing…

Anyway.. Its not a HD/LD issue.. Its the loading of the initial game code..

I would suggest that runescape has become much larger in the last 12 months.. But the algorithms that determine loading times havent been modified to keep up with the size change..

As a result it has become increasing harder for dialup users to load the game.. Once the game has been loading.. There are no problems accessing the game. Until the next DREADED upgrade..

yes… under these conditions upgrades are dreaded..

Now what do we do? Just keep checking the forums for a reply?

I wonder how many other Jagex/Runescape veterans like myself just simply gave up….

Knowing how frustrating it would be to attempt to get Jagex to notice this problem?

(I know from past experience that jagex dont like rants or problems raised without the complainee providing a solution as well)

Quick Solution: Jagex should provide ‘ANOTHER WAY’ to re-download the c:/rscache?

Maybe a zip file….

Samari376 07-May-2009 17:54:47


Using Dial-Up internet to play A Massive online game which uses lots of internet usage and Computer memory, isn’t really ideal.

You Should try re-installing you’re java.

And try play runescape using Runescape Client, which can be found in the downloads section of this website.

I Strongly, reccomend that you consider switching to broadband as you’re gaming experience will be much faster, better and more reliable.

Lazerzap1 Edit 07-May-2009 18:02:38

Last edited on 07-May-2009 18:07:25 by Lazerzap1

Ty for the reply Sam…

StartEdit: On all 3 xp boxes: I have the Runescape Client, Java is working fine. EndEdit:

But my method of accessing the net shouldn’t be the issue if Jagex really were Java programmers of excellence…

I agree.. Broadband would be nice.. (I had ADSL before I moved to this remote location)

But BROADBAND is NOT an option here.

The problem is with Jagex’s method of delivery I’m afraid.. Making it go faster may ‘hide’ the issue for awhile longer. But eventually the ‘issue’ may even affect Broadband users if Jagex fail to rectify the problem.

I could be completely wrong in my determination of the cause and effect.

An official Jagex comment would lay these ‘assumptions’ to rest perhaps??

Lazerzap1 Edit 07-May-2009 18:23:42


I been thinking on how to get around this problem…

(This may help other people..)

I suppose I could try to connect the external modem to my main XP box. Rather than go thru the linux machine. But it never was a problem before. In fact I thought everything worked better thru the linux box.. Hmmmm..

I could keep some data credit (sigh) on my mobile phone. Use the mobile phones built in modem to provide the internet to my XP box. (I’ve done this before..)

Just to get the Jagex updates??

Hmmmm.. How bad do we want to play Runescape?.. This is getting expensive now..

Mod Jod Jagex Mod 07-May-2009 18:48:47

Hi there Lazerzap1,

I am sorry to hear about these problems.

As someone said above, I would not recommend to use Dial up to play Runescape. With all the different objects and player data etc that need to load, a slow connection is bound to have an effect on the game experience.

Even if you do need to play on Dial up some suggestions to speed your connection up would be to make sure that you are not running any internet demanding applications in the background whilst playing Runescape as these will take up bandwidth. If there are other people in the household doing similar tasks this too will have an effect on your connection speed.

I hope these suggestions will help you.

Mod Jod

Lazerzap1 Edit 07-May-2009 18:49:11

Well… I keep trying to load it..

and it keeps failing…

weird.. I see some linux people complaining about the latest update too…

I dont live on the Runescape forums.. To be quite honest.. I find the Runescape forums to be frustrating.

So.. Im gonna go and do something else.. (Play something else..)

I will check back here from time to time to see if there is a Jagex comment or solution.

All of our subscriptions only had a few days left anyway..

I think there is a lesson there.. Im glad I didnt subscribe for longer than 1 month at a time.

Lazerzap1 Edit 07-May-2009 18:53:32

Last edited on 07-May-2009 19:01:04 by Lazerzap1

ty for the reply Mod Jod..

Yes.. I understand what your saying..

I have made sure that the xp system that is loading Runescape has minimal internet and cpu demand..

Without noticable change..

At the moment it’s 3.21am and the rest of the fasmily are asleep.. So only 1 XP box turned on..

I am a complete nerd. So I have tried pretty well everything that I can think of…

Edit.. Just so you know..

My dialup isnt even real dialup. I connect to a RIM telephone exchange in rural Australia. The maximum connection I can acheive is 31.2 kbps (a little over half of a 56k dialup connection)

But.. We have (until now) been operating Runescape (and a lot of other stuff) without issue..

However… The loading has always been flakey… and it has been getting slowly worse…

This last upgrade broke the camels back..

Now.. I run an apache server thru my linux box. It serves 9 domains. I dont have issue with that at all! So how come my dialup connection is at fault when trying to load Runescape?

Sorry to be blunt.. But maybe this issue needs some real attention??

Lazerzap1 Edit 07-May-2009 19:25:04

Well.. It’s totally frustrating to just keep trying the same thing over and over…

So I guess I will turn on the dynamic dns updater so my domains start serving again..

do a ‘service httpd start’ on the linux box..

and blog how Runescape has become so flakey that we cant load it..

Yeah.. I know.. “PREASURE!”.. The internet is ‘all’ word of mouth…

If I get a lot of ‘Comments’ on my posting.. I guess it will be safe to assume that I’m not the only one with this issue..

I think that will give a more accurate ‘picture’ of whats happening to people rather than a forum that ‘scrolls’ off the issues so that people have to re-create the same thread over and over..

I say this because I know there is a good chance that my ‘thread’ and ‘posting’ could just dissapear from the Jagex forums.

Yeah.. Im a long term player.. I’ve been here before.. I know how I will be ignored..

It’s a shame to spend so much time on a game where the people who support the game would rather you just quit than get off their bums to fix a problem.

Basic customer service thru a forum? So I can get told over and over to get BROADBAND from all the wannabe knowitalls?

Bah and Humbug! Fix your loader Jagex!

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2009-01-15 RuneScape

I’m trying to push my crafting level to 80. So.. Cheapest and fastest way I can see is to make Coifs from Leather.

So armed with my (not so) trusty Sacred Clay Needle(s) I set out to try and get to Level 80 Crafting.

I found the following Blurb on ‘Junk Trading’ in the RuneScape Forums.. Quick find code: 74-75-825-58191256 by Carrcomposer 04-Jan-2009 22:56:50

The Truth about Junk Trading There are a great deal of myths and misconceptions surrounding the practice of junk trading. Sadly, much of this misinformation is at least in part perpetuated by jagex via the regrettably dishonest GE article in the Knowledge Base.

Many players who are not aware of how junk trading works view it a sinister practice by deviant players who are engaging in something unspeakable bordering on item scamming. Still others view junk trading as a mass conspiracy of merchants with a singular goal to destroy the RS economy.

In the next few posts I will conclusively demonstrate what many players fail to realize: namely, that it is jagex’s policies that are solely to blame for junk trading. Then, I will provide three simple solutions which if implemented will abolish junk trading entirely without reopening the back door to RL trading.

What is junk trading? In short, junk trading is a method used to trade items that have been rendered untradeable by mispricing. It can best be understood by an example:

Player A has an item X which is in far higher demand than its GE price would indicate. Although the GE price is 50m, he finds that several people including Player B would be willing to pay 100m for it. Obviously the trade limits would prevent such a trade from ever taking place, so Player A needs to find a way to offset the trade in order to get a fair price for his item. He accomplishes this by “junk trading”, that is, pairing overvalued items with the undervalued item he wishes to sell in order to manufacture a value of 100m.

The final equation looks like this:

item X (GE value: 50m, street value: 100m) + junk (GE value: 50m, street value: ~0gp) = 100m cash

You can see from this breakdown that player A is effectively trading his item X for 100m cash.

What fuels junk trading? Junk trading is driven by pricing inequities caused by various GE restrictions. When an item is overvalued or undervalued and prevented from self-correcting, the law of supply and demand breaks down, causing supply to increase drastically while demand approches zero (or vice versa). The rigid trade restrictions imposed by jagex cause the market to grind to a halt, effectively rendering the item untradeable via conventional means.

In order to trade the item in light of this restriction, the player must pair it with items of the opposite “polarity” (if the item is undervalued, it is paired with overvalued items to create equilibrium, and vice versa)

What causes pricing inequities? There are two distinct sources of price discrepencies, and I will deal with them both seperately. They are 1) GE price floors/ceilings and 2) unresponsive/slow-updating prices

1) GE PRICE FLOORS/CEILINGS In addition to the 5% window which restricts prices to a perscribed range, there exist additional restrictions which serve to further limit price fluctuation. These take the forms of price floors and price ceilings. Floors and ceilings are completely distinct from the 5% window in that they are predetermined by jagex, bearing no relation to player supply/demand.

Jagex denies the existence of price floors/ceilings, claiming that “There is no ‘set value’ that prices are based on, with the exception that a price will never rise above a shop’s main stock price, or fall below the price a shop will pay for it.”* This statement is blatantly false, and demonstratively so. A quick visit to the GE database reveals that certain items have minimum prices which are equal to their average prices, for example the maple longbow (min 384, avg 384, max 403). The absence of the expected 5% window below the average price reveals that there is a floor at 384gp that prevents the price from ever falling below this value, completely regardless of player supply and demand!

Price floors create massive amounts of trade fodder, better known as junk, by locking prices at artificially high values and preventing them from fluctuating with player supply/demand. Among the items rendered untradeable by price floors are: regular to maple bows (strung and unstrung), virtually all bronze to mith armor and weapons, most summoning scrolls, most thrown ranged weapons, and far too many more to mention.

  • Source: Home > Game Guide > The Grand Exchange

2) UNRESPONIVE/SLOW-UPDATING PRICES Some items require a sales quota, that is, a certain number of the item must be sold or a certain number of days must pass before the price is allowed to update. Expensive items such as rares and third age often do not update even when the “recently traded items” section of the GE databased reveals them to have been sold, revealing that a trade quota has been put in place.

Still other items do not update simply because no transactions have been completed, as is the case for christmas crackers and other high end items. This reveals another fundamental flaw of the GE, namely that prices are not updated based on all offers but rather on completed offers only. That is, an item that is unjustly priced will only change if enough people are unwise enough to buy/sell the item at its current unjust price.

Solutions These solutions represent the most effective and indeed the ONLY way to end junk trading, namely, by addressing its root causes head on.

1. ALL PREDETERMINED PRICE FLOORS/CEILINGS MUST BE REMOVED! Price floors and ceilings prevent prices from fluctuating with player/supply and demand! Item prices will converge on their just values automatically; by artificially and baselessly fixing prices at predetermined levels, jagex virtually GUARANTEES that the GE prices will be incorrect. 2. Update prices based on all current offers, not just completed offers! Currently, the GE works on the counterintuitive principle that the more incorrect an item’s value is, the less likely it is to update! 3. Eliminate all price quotas and allow all items to update daily regardless of how many are traded. If anything, items that are traded in small quantities have the GREATEST need for frequent updates, since these items are especially prone from being locked at incorrect prices without the potential to self-correct!

Gaunts1 05-Jan-2009 07:05:36

Junk trading allows for profits to be generated from items that are supposed to be junk, and for the most part were routinely discarded as such. These items are byproducts of training production skills. The lack of tradability for these items brings an element of balance back to the game. Our gathering skills feed the production skills, the gathering skills are were the money is and the production ones consume it. The price of gaining experience in production skills is represented by the loss of value in raw materials as their experience is used to gain ranks. Only by junking are players able to obtain profits were by design there are none to be made. The practice allows production skills to turn profits when they are designed to create expense.

The KB does acknowledge the limitation imposed on prices and that completed trades are the only things that move them. This is no secret. Players now set prices within prescribed ranges by executing trades in the GE. The former free for all is in fact over. The floors remain in place to maintain a value for a single bow, pouch or what have you. The price paid by the general store, the shard return price, the flat-pack recoup price are to be the ONLY value reclaimed back from bulk produced items. Certainly an occasional single item sale on a produced item may yield a profit, but in general produced items are supposed to be worth then their raw materials. About the only exception to this is rune crafting.

No it was not always this way. In the beginning produced goods had values exceeding the raw materials as few players could make them and supplies were very tight. The profits on finished goods then were supported for years by the mass of botted/farmed cheap raw materials; you know the RWT influence that was the cause of all the game’s major changes.

The value in skills is your gaining of rank and not profits. The game values and ranks its players on experience only, wealth is not even on the chart as it too is a byproduct of playing the game. These skills help you meet the requirements to do quests and access other areas of the game.

The fix to the entire debacle is very simple. Put a rule in play whereby ANY purchased item(s) must be used or converted prior to it being eligible for re-sale. By use that would mean wielding it for a number of hours, else the conversion rule of processing the item into something else would take over.

With the above rule, those who feel a price is too high or low could in fact use their millions to get an item. The junk they accept would then need to be used or converted. It would be impractical to use wield each of 10k bows, so they would be sold to the store or dropped to the ground as the junk they are meant to be. The purchaser should have no issue in discarding the junk as they only paid the price for the single item that they believed it to be worth.

As to the GE some form of bidding to establish a price on a new item (idea not mine) before it is allowed for open trade would establish an items starting price. Completed trades and the averaging process would then take over and remain adequate enough at maintaining proper prices. Players would remain free to exchange goods outside the GE at essentially their desired price but would have to actually pay that price and not reclaim major parts of the expenditure back while disposing of the junk that should have previously been discarded as junk.

Odd Patriot 06-Jan-2009 18:36:36

To leave the merchants without blame is ludicrous, but at the same time the consumer is as much to blame for choosing to buy it at a price they feel ultimately is unreasonable.

The junk trading phenomenon is the final verdict on a command economic system that Jagex tried to introduce with the advent of the Grand Exchange. They tried to revoke the laws of supply and demand, and it massively failed for items that have do not have a clear supply/demand or for high end items that fluctuate rapidly based on which merchanting clan is manipulating what item (don’t tell me it doesn’t happen… it DOES!)

They could remove almost all of the restrictions (I’d keep the floors and ceilings to prevent mass manipulation, but loosen them by at least +/-10%) as long as the items on the Exchange are anonymous trades AND the outside trading remains balanced.

Another alternative solution is to have the items commonly used as junk be absorbed properly by Jagex. Those things have no use, and if one is given to them then they are less likely to be used as junk. Think the Advisor Ghrim flatpack update, only a lot better executed and good enough to absorb MILLIONS of these items from the game.

General K I 06-Jan-2009 18:56:09

I like what you wrote. It was well written and informative

The thing about your suggestions is it will encourage price manipulation. It exists at the moment but by letting the price of items float around so freely will result in certain people making a killing - thats why it’s the way it is; all rigid with floors and ceilings and stuff.

I don’t really think there is a perfect economic system for Runescape that closes the door on RWT, junk trading, price manipulation and other such undesirable practices.

Odd Patriot 07-Jan-2009 02:04:19

I think that the Grand Exchange was a positive step for this game. World 2 was in the total power of the merchants, and that wasn’t deniable. I saw throughout my long time on this game price spikes and drops that had no justification or logical explanation other than the merchants on world 2 colluded together yet again.

However, with a new economic system comes unintended consequences, which any emergent game play specialist will only try and take advantage of. Junk trading is that taking advantage of a flaw in the system. I do not think it is wrong; rather restricting the supply and demand with floors and ceilings is what is wrong.

The newest items are often the worst offenders of junk trading, as Jagex rarely gets high alchemy and shop values right. Instead, there should be automatic auctions of these items in the Exchange until a settled set price is ensured. As long as it is anonymous, there should not be an issue with RWIT.

Will junk trading and that other illegal trading method ever die? No. They can certainly be curbed, NOT banned. Banning would just allow emergent game players to seek the next method to ‘beat the system’.

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